I'd suggest you do the CD upgrade and start with your Valencia crossover. I think you're going to need the high fequency equalization that the Model 19 crossover adds but the improvement in FR from CD upgrade is going to be large.
Have you looked into getting an active crossover?
Westend --at the risk of sounding (more) ignorant--what is a CD upgrade--not sure what the abbreviation CD stands for in this case? Also, I'm not interested in using an active crossover--I don't have the know-how or measuring equipment to implement it with confidence and I'd rather use something that already has all the necessary adjustments made for me.
Old Guy--thanks for the detailed response. I agree the Valencia crossover leaves much to be desired, I suppose it makes no sense to shell out over $400 for two GPA 902 drivers (or used Altec 802 or 902 drivers) and subject them to the old Valencia crossover. The Heathkit AS-101 crossover that I have in my Heathkit AS 101's, however, is a better crossover than the Valencia--not to mention that with the help of some of you guys on this forum (and Zilch from another forum), I recapped my Heathkit crossovers last year and they sound better than ever. Do you or does anyone out there think that the Heathkit AS-101 crossover (800 hz) would work well with the GPA 902 drivers and 416-8A woofers?
My other option is to wait until GPA offers a Model 19 crossover -- I have a feeling that it's in the works (see quote below). If they do offer a Model 19 crossover I would buy four of them and four 902 drivers and upgrade both my Valencias and my Heathkit AS 101's. I'll bet there's lots of others out there that would be interested in doing this upgrade if they could buy GPA Model 19 crossovers--and many people that would love to build "new" Model 19's with the GPA 902 and 416-8c if they could buy a GPA Model 19 crossover. My Valencias are the 16 ohm version--I know GPA offers both an 8 ohm version and a 16 ohm version of the 902 driver. I'm hoping if they offer a model 19 crossover for this type of upgrade that they will offer both an 8 ohm version to go with the 8 ohm 902 that they sell (I'd use these for my AS-101's), and a 16 ohm version of the Model 19 crossover to go with the 16 ohm 902 that they sell (for my Valencias). My Valencias and AS 101's sound great the way they are now--so I'm in no major hurry and I'm not even considering scouring the internet for a used pair of Model 19 crossovers--I've heard horror stories about people "parting out" Model 19 crossovers because they've been "pushed" (partially fried) with too much power....
Also, I've heard that the "new" Iconic Model 19 crossovers are really expensive--I'd rather wait for the GPA version if it is in the works (especially since I've done business with GPA before and was very impressed by them)--does anyone (Todd maybe?) know if GPA is going to offer Model 19 crossovers?
Originally Posted by Todd W. White
Wouldn't you also have to use the eq/att. out of a model 19, if you used a model 19 crossover. I don't think the 416 and 902 would mesh very well without it. And from what i have seen most valencias are crossed at 800 hz., whereas the 19 is crossed at 1200 hz. I wonder how the 416 is gonna play crossed at 1200 with that 19 crossover, in that small of a cabinet.
A smaller cabinet is going to affect LF, not likely to have much effect 800-1200Hz.
I wouldn't be worried about that at all.
Later Altec crossovers will flatten the HF and help pull out some mid.
Of course an EQ could just be added after the existing crossover. Haven't done much playing with that sort of thing.
The original Altec designs are pretty good. They can be improved...but the cost may be just not worth it. You reach a point of diminishing returns....a ten percent improvement costs way more than ten percent more...
Your neighbors called. They like your music.
Thanks for the info. I agree, sometimes the mods. aren't worth it. By the time I finish these 846As, it would of been cheaper to buy a nice set of 846Bs on the bay. I'm retired, so i got to learn a little, and the finished product turned out pretty good. I found the cabinets empty, except for the original crossovers, which were opened up and tampered with. I installed rebuilt 416As, rebuilt 802-8As hooked to 811B horns, and a set of N 801-8A crossovers. The grills were trashed, so I made a set from 1/4 inch tempered masonite, covered with black burlap, they look presentable, and sound pretty good. plenty of bass and detailed highs. The 802s are a little longer than the original 806s by about a half inch, so a little modding is also necessary to get them to fit. Overall i'm pleased with the results, and i had fun playing, and learning. I would post pics, but it will not let me.
There is a gentleman over at Lansing Heritage by the name of Rick (Saeman) who took over for Zilch on the Zilch Cloth Emporium that has original JBL grille cloth Black & Blue I have aquired 2yds of black for my Altec 612C's and it is Identical to the brown cloth that came on my 19's a diamond pattern only differance is the diamond is alittle smaller tighter weave.I think Altec and JBL used the same cloth manufacturer.You may want to try some I think you would be much happier than with Burlap.$15 a yard I can post a pic if you would like a lookie.And use a Weldwood Contact Cement (Original) the smelly stuff for applying it to the grille frame.
Also try Photobucket or Flickr I think Flickr is easier though http://photobucket.com/ or http://www.flickr.com/ and if you use these sites then you just have to post a link something you may want to try.
In your profile you can creat a photo album. Then after you upload photos into your album, you can click on the picture then copy the bb code at the bottom of the photo to your post.I would post pics, but it will not let me.
Thanks again for the info. I also apologize to the o.p. im not trying to hijack your thread. I understand that the 902s and 802s are about the best small format drivers for home use. New components get a little expensive to use for an upgrade. I think the valencias would definitely benefit from the h.f driver upgrade, but by how much, it's not a huge improvement. I don't think the improvement is worth the cost, unless you had an extra set laying around unused. Then there's the mods you have to do to the rear of cabinets to get them to fit. If i had a set of perfect cabinets, i would think twice before i altered them. Altec had it pretty much right, from the factory. I would love to see those grills too, thanks.
Hmm, the 846 XOs are considerably different from the N801-8A's 'textbook' 2nd order Butterworth designs, so a bit surprised you don't find the mids 'hump' this causes objectionable. Then again, I imagine burlap is dense enough to make an audible difference, allowing less HF shelving. FWIW, the 801s are old enough to need new (and better) caps by now.
GM
Loud is Beautiful if it's Clean! As always though, the usual disclaimers apply to this post's contents.
New caps are next on the list. I honestly don't hear any kind of noticable hump in the mids, but then, ask me again after i recap the crossovers, and switch to the JBL speaker cloth. I might be installing an eq too. Ahh more fun, lol Sorry about the pics, i'm computer illiterate. I may have to ask my daughter to show me, now i really feel old.
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